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Initial Discussion

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spacer *THIS IS MY SECOND POST, MY FIRST POST WAS NOT SHOWN IN YOUR HATE MAIL. I HOPE YOU ARE BRAVE ENOUGH.*

Just came across to your site. I read your articles and found lots of false accusations to the group PMCC 4th Watch, especially alleging it as a cult. I would like you to prove your assertions in an online debate with me. By the way here is my brief background, fagsforchrist.wordpress.com. You can leave a comment there.
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spacer Hello Roland. Thank you for contacting the Watchers of the 4th Watch. We apologize for not responding earlier. We usually respond within 24 hours, but because you requested a debate, we were making sure we had an appropriate platform to conduct it on. We just established two new and improved forums for our project, as our first one was only temporary, which was used to gain the attention of the 4th Watchers on Facebook. Now that we've done that, we are creating a more effective forum on our own website. Our head producer, Atheist Jesus, will also be using Facebook to host debates and discussions in case any 4th Watcher would like to debate on a more familiar platform. Everything should be completed within 2 hours, and then we can discuss where and how we will conduct the debates. We look forward to it.

By the way, we read your post the first time when it was posted to one of our message boards. We replied back but we don't think you saw it because you didn't respond. That's okay though. This new debate should do us well. Again, we look forward to it. We will email you when the forums are up. Thank you.
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spacer Phillip, I received an automatic email reply for every email I sent to you (total of two). I resend my post because it was not shown in your hate mail.

Anyway, before we start the debate, we can discuss the following here:

1. Debate topic
2. Terms of debate (debate rules, debate proper, debate format)
3. Coin toss
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spacer Roland, I see that you are in the process of creating a thread on your blog. I'm not exactly sure what your intentions are, but if you want to have a debate with me, you need to contact me to let me know what's going on. This is my fourth attempt to contact you without any reply from you. We cannot have a debate unless we establish communication between us. You are the one who initiated a debate with me, so you need to make sure you follow through or at least let me know that you are no longer willing to have it.

I am wondering if you want to have the debate on your blog. I would rather have it on Facebook or the forum on our website. If however you want to conduct it on your blog, that is fine, but I need to know the regulations for debating on your platform, and then I can decide if I wish to continue. Also, if we are to debate there, you must allow for every post I make to be made available, unless I break the rules. I will not debate anyone if they have to moderate the post first and then post it. I want posting to be without timely delays and I want the both of us to have the freedom to say whatever we want, or at least close to it.

Also, I do not understand your message about me not putting your mail in our hatemail section. What does that have to do with the automatic responses and you sending another mail? Also, I am going to have to start exercising, so let's at least establish the rules and then when we are both ready, we can do this.

Since you are making no attempt to contact me or to initiate the debate, I am starting to believe that you were not serious about your request. I am going to go exercise now. Let me know if you decide you want to debate after all.
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spacer http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/boardrules.shtml

This link will give you all of the regulations that we follow when debating on our own forums. This is close to what I expect to follow. You need to let me know if there are any changes you wish to make to those rules on your blog, if this is where you'd like to have the debate. We must both agree on the terms to this debate.

One thing I must insist on is the free posting by all who are involved. I do not wish to make a post, and then have you moderate it first to decide if it's worth posting, and then post it. It limits freedom and makes things go slower. It also gives you an unfair advantage, as I do not have the power to moderate your posts.
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spacer I will read the rules you suggested.

I modified the wordpress settings so that comments do not need administrator approval.
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spacer Okay, just keep me informed so that we can start this. Is this going to be a public or private debate? spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer I prefer a public debate. spacer Cult Member
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spacer Okay, so am I to expect other 4th Watchers to join in?

What I mean is the debate will be available in the internet for all to see, but it is a one-on-one debate between us.
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spacer Okay, so am I to expect other 4th Watchers to join in?

This debate doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Are you serious about this or what?
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spacer I would like to add and edit some of the debate rules:

1. Both parties must maintain the highest possible level of discussion and relevance in this thread.
2. No "Flaming". Both parties will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member. This will include misquoting another member out of context. However, you may discuss another member's beliefs.
3. No "Offensive" or "Illegal" Posts, Links or Images. Both parties will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory or otherwise violative of any local or international laws, against another member.
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spacer These additional terms are acceptable. I would only add one detail.

You say "Both parties will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory or otherwise violative of any local or international laws".

This describes the Bible almost exactly, and I am positive that we will be discussing the Bible during this debate, so I think we need to make an exception when discussing the Bible.
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spacer In addition to the terms of debate, I would like to suggest the following:

Debate Proper
There will be two sets for the debate. In either of the sets, one is in the affirmative side, and another is in the negative side. They will change the topic and switch roles after the 1st set, before beginning the 2nd set.

Debate Format
A refers to the member in the affirmative side.
N refers to the member in the negative side.

In either of the sets, here is the format:

First Affirmative Constructive of A

Cross Examination of N - at most 5 questions (follow-up questions are counted)

First Negative Constructive of N

Cross Examination of A - at most 5 questions (follow-up questions are counted)

Second Affirmative Constructive of A

Cross Examination of N - at most 5 questions (follow-up questions are counted)

Second Negative Constructive of N

Cross Examination of A - at most 5 questions (follow-up questions are counted)

Third Affirmative Constructive of A

Cross Examination of N - at most 5 questions (follow-up questions are counted)
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spacer The format of the debate you desire seems rather formal. I want to make sure that we are able to get all of our points across. But we can try it like this and see how it goes. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer Yes the format I suggested is a formal one. spacer Cult Member
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spacer During the debate, by what name would you like to be addressed? Phillip Keenan, Joe Masters, Atheist Jesus, etc.?

You can address me by my name Roland, or Mr. Laynesa.
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spacer In order to be as least offensive as possible for this debate, we should address everyone by proper names. You may address me by my screen name Joe Masters, Joe, etc. or Atheist Jesus. Joe will probably be easiest for you. I will refer to you as Roland. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer Acknowledged. spacer Cult Member
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spacer Are we going to leave posts as time permits or are we going to do this at certain times only? spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer I do not think we have the same time zone. Moreover I have a job that requires me to work in different time frames, but I will do my best to post as frequently as I can. spacer Cult Member
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spacer Is there any way to change my avatar? spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer I do not know if an unregistered poster can change his avatar, but you have an option to register for free in wordpress. spacer Cult Member
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spacer It seems like I lost you again. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer I think we are done with #2 Terms of debate. For #3 Coin toss, I suggest that we can use the system available in Virtual Coin Toss http://cgi.cs.duke.edu/~des/vct/vct.cgi

I will be online again probably 9 hours from now.
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spacer You may start. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer For # 1 Debate topic, here is my suggestion:

Either 1st or 2nd set (depending on the coin toss result):
Joe - affirmative side
Roland - negative side
Joe will prove that PMCC 4th Watch is a cult of Christianity.

Either 1st or 2nd set (depending on the coin toss result):
Roland - affirmative side
Joe - negative side
(I am thinking of the counterpart of your affirmative topic, this is what I think complements your affirmative topic, but you can suggest other possible topic as my affirmative.)
Roland will prove that PMCC 4th Watch is the true church, according to the Bible.
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spacer Okay, well let's get this party started. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer OK, I will create another thread where we can begin the debate. But before starting the debate let's have a virtual coin toss to know who will be the affirmative in the 1st set.
http://cgi.cs.duke.edu/~des/vct/vct.cgi

I'm calling HEADS at March 26, 2011 / 20:00:00 (virtual coin toss time). Head means Roland is the affirmative for the 1st set. Tail means Joe is the affirmative for the 1st set.

We can view a prior coin toss in the said website.
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spacer Okay, let's just start. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer We really need to start this. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer The result's a HEAD so I will be the affirmative for the 1st set.

1st set
Roland - affirmative side
Joe - negative side
Roland will prove that PMCC 4th Watch is the true church, according to the Bible.

2nd set
Joe - affirmative side
Roland - negative side
Joe will prove that PMCC 4th Watch is a cult of Christianity.

When I get home today I will post my First Affirmative Constructive as soon as possible.
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spacer Okay. spacer Atheist Jesus
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spacer Here is the link for the thread of our first debate:
http://fagsforchrist.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/1stdebate/
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spacer 1st set
Roland - affirmative side
Joe - negative side
Roland will prove that PMCC 4th Watch is the true church, according to the Bible.

2nd set
Joe - affirmative side
Roland - negative side
Joe will prove that PMCC 4th Watch is a cult of Christianity. The 1st set begins.
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