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Hate Mail

All of the hatemail that we look forward to will go here.



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spacer Subject: What is your organization called?

People know so much about 4th watch but what about this website is it valid? Or Did your organization copy and paste this website together? We no nothing about your organization and what beliefs you have? And yet you can make comments and opinions about another organization. Is this website trust worthy? Who is your leader? What are your doctrines? If anything I think your organization is a cult that misleads people as well. Since no one knows what organization you really are.

-Mel Cusack
April 23, 2012
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Freethinker spacer Thank you Mel for contacting the Watchers of the 4th Watch. We will go through each one of your questions and comments.

"People know so much about 4th watch"

Actually; we would disagree with that statement. Most persons don't know anything about the 4th Watch, and many who have heard about them do not know the true details of their cult. In fact; even many persons who are in the 4th Watch cult do not know all of the details of their church; many don't realize that it's a cult. This is why we created this project; to expose the 4th Watch cult, and educate everyone about its dangers.

"but what about this website is it valid? Or Did your organization copy and paste this website together? We no nothing about your organization and what beliefs you have? And yet you can make comments and opinions about another organization. Is this website trust worthy?"

We're sorry, but you are incorrect in some of your thinking. Further more; our website already addresses each one of these questions and comments. We'll use passages from our website to address every statement that you made here.

We are the Watchers of the 4th Watch; the ones responsible for the the PMCC 4th Watch Truth Project; which is here to expose the truth about the PMCC 4th Watch religious cult, and was established to inform and warn the public about the cult's highly unusual and potentially dangerous beliefs, practices, and members. The project was put together by victims, ex-members, and concerned citizens of the PMCC 4th Watch cult, and such persons and experts of cults and religion in general. As Watchers of the 4th Watch, this project will help us keep an eye on the 4th Watch and it will make it easier for others to do the same. All facts within this project are verified and supported by personal experience within the PMCC 4th Watch church, as well as additional research, including information coming directly from the church itself, or from third parties.

Also; we'll have you know that every single article in our project is 100% written by us; the Watchers of the 4th Watch. Remember that our writings have come from our experiences as members and victims of the cult, and as cult experts.

"Who is your leader?"

Our leader, who is not a cult leader by any means, is a victim and ex-member of the 4th Watch cult named Joe Masters; also nicknamed Atheist Jesus.

"What are your doctrines?"

We do not have doctrines. We are not a religion or church. We are simply an activist organization that seeks to educate and expose matters of the PMCC 4th Watch cult.

"If anything I think your organization is a cult that misleads people as well. Since no one knows what organization you really are."

This statement doesn't make any sense. First of all; you can't call an organization a cult simply because "no one knows who they are". Second of all; we clearly explain on our website who we are; so you have no excuse. In any case; please understand what a cult is first before you accuse something else of being a cult. You can find out what a cult really is on this page of our project:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/whatisacult.shtml

Thank you for contacting us here at the PMCC 4th Watch Truth Project.

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
April 30, 2012
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spacer Subject: Thanks!

Thank you for promoting our Church and continues studying of our doctrine, maybe someday you'll become like apostle paul, a persecutor before Christ but God turned him to be a believer of Christ and God! Please study well and be researchful because all of your comments, views and researched are all erroneus. The day will come that the most atheist believer in the world will testify that there is God and He will go to heaven. And that is YOU!!!!! Marked my words!

-John Go
March 6, 2012
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Freethinker spacer Thank you for contacting the Watchers of the 4th Watch cult! We are devoted to exposing the lies and dangers of the PMCC 4th Watch church. Don't worry about promoting such an awful church. We receive many love mails that encourage us, and some have even let us know that our site helped them to stay away from the evils of Arsenio Ferriol and his doomsday cult. Fortunately; we never received any mails from persons proclaiming that we helped them join. We will continue to expose the fraud of Arsenio Ferriol and his family, and the public will always have a way to be aware of their evil. As for Heaven; Heaven doesn't exist, so obviously; no one will be going there. Thank you so much for contacting the Watchers!

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
March 18, 2012
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wow! natatawa aku sau! bakit mu kami sinisira?! kung katotohanan nman ang pnaglalaban namin. d kami nkikipag debate, pero dahil mahal nman ang Diyos pnaglalaban namin kung anu man ang totoo. paano kami maging kulto, May Dioys kami. Magbago ka, hanggat may panahon pa. Kng gusto mo mg cinba ka sa church namin.


You amuse me. Why are you defaming us, when it is the truth that we're fighting for? We do not engage in debates, but because we love God, we fight for whatever is true. How could we be a cult? We have God. Repent while there's still time. You can even go to our church if you like.

-Annonymous
March 23, 2012
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Freethinker spacer "You amuse me."

You kind of amuse us as well, but since you are a danger to the world; we stop laughing after a while, and take action.

"Why are you defaming us"

We are simply exposing the truth behind the PMCC 4th Watch cult. If there is something that you do not like about this truth; then it is of your own cult's doing. Simply change your ways if you do not like it.

"when it is the truth that we're fighting for?"

If you cared about truth; you wouldn't be relying on faith for the truth. You wouldn't be believing in something just because an ancient book tells you to believe it, and you wouldn't listen to a madman who claims to have been appointed by God to be your leader.

"We do not engage in debates, but because we love God, we fight for whatever is true."

Actually; you do engage in debates. You do all of the time. You might love God, but God is evil; so you shouldn't. You don't even have any evidence to show that he is real in the first place.

"How could we be a cult? We have God."

Yeah; having God is cultic. For more information on how your church is a cult; please read our article on cults here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/whatisacult.shtml

"Repent while there's still time."

If we're running out of time before God will do something horrible to us; then God is evil. However; you have no evidence that we're running out of time for anything like that.

"You can even go to our church if you like."

Most of us would rather bathe in feces before attending your evil cult again. But thanks.

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
April 30, 2012
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spacer Subject: nonsense you are!

Question or Comment: your just all jealous bcoz of the big growth of our church and it is bcoz God is with us...
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NOT WITH U..
(MANG UUSIG)
BLEHH...

-Jona
January 20, 2012
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Freethinker spacer "your just all jealous bcoz of the big growth of our church and it is bcoz God is with us..."

You have to first demonstrate that God is with you. Additionally; there is nothing to be jealous of a cult.

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
January 22, 2012
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spacer Subject: In the name of Jesus Christ ! I rebuke you ! lumayas ka!

Hello! i just dont get you.. You judge 4thwatchers easily. do you even have right to judge? only God does! we will stand in frond of all and God will judge as according to what we have done. either good or evil. I think its better to believe,repent and be baptize ! God still loves you.. i know sometimes we have troubles in life but its just God's way to test our faith.. have faith! love one another! he will make your red like sin to a fresh white fallen snow! do it! till theres time.. just think again!

-Unidentified
January 16, 2012
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Freethinker spacer I rebuke you in the name of reason and sanity! Lol.

"Hello!"

Hi.

"i just dont get you.."

Yeah; we don't get why persons would surrender their brains to fake apostles either.

"You judge 4thwatchers easily. do you even have right to judge?"

Yes; we do, and we DO. You people are a dangerous, and we do all within our limits to suppress you.

"only God does!"

God doesn't even exist.

"we will stand in frond of all and God will judge as according to what we have done. either good or evil."

Unless you have evidence; this is just pure nonsense. But even if it was true; that means that most of the 4th Watchers, especially Arsenio Ferriol and his son, will be going to Hell. Ouch. Not good to be a 4th Watcher!

"I think its better to believe,repent and be baptize !"

We think that it's better to not give your lives to superstition and be overcome by delusions. We believe in love and reason. 4th Watchers teach hatred.

"God still loves you.."

God doesn't exist, but even if he did; the Bible clearly shows that he hates everybody.

"i know sometimes we have troubles in life but its just God's way to test our faith.."

Do you have evidence for this? In any case; it actually would show more that God is just evil.

"have faith!"

Faith is stupid, dangerous, and irresponsible. Have evidence instead.

"love one another!"

Yes! That means allowing gays to be married, women to be head of the household, and not starting wars in the name of your evil god.

"he will make your red like sin to a fresh white fallen snow! do it! till theres time.. just think again!"

Oooh; scary. It's a good thing that your evil god doesn't exist.

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
January 22, 2012
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spacer Subject: Questions

Hello, I'm from the Pentecostal Missionary Church of Christ, and I passed this website saying that PMCC 4th Watch is a cult. I want to ask you some things if you don't mind?

This comment that you'd said in one of the people here: "Following the Bible is exactly one of the major factors which makes you a cult. The Bible is immoral and incorrect, and has no place in our society as an authority in our lives. We don't understand the Bible because we don't understand it? Lol. It's no wonder how you've been brainwashed by a cult. "

Okay, so can I ask you when you attended the church? And are you baptized? Because, if you are, there is a saying in "Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" So if you were baptized, you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the question is, what is the gift of the Holy Ghost? There is a saying in 1Th 1:5 "For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake"

So it means that the understanding of the bible will come to you if you were baptized. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the understanding of the bible and His words. So is the bible wrong? Tell me, and I will answer it according to the bible. Tell me 10 good reasons why PMCC 4th Watch is a cult? Can you clarify this to me?

-Christian
December 5, 2011
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Freethinker spacer Hello Christian. Thank you for your interest in our anti-PMCC 4th Watch project. We will be happy to answer your questions. We don't mind at all.

Okay. So you asked us when we attended the church and if we were baptized. This answer varies somewhat because we're all different, but most of us were indeed members of your cult in the past recent years, and yes; all of us were baptized by your church. Indeed; the Bible is wrong about baptism and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not exist, and therefore no such gift can be given. Truly understanding the Bible doesn't take being pushed into a pool of water. It takes knowledge in the original languages of what it was written in. It also takes both historic and scientific knowledge. And by the way; your fake apostle does not have any of these abilities.

As for ten good reasons why the PMCC 4th Watch is a cult; we certainly have a lot more than ten. We have a page on our site that lists all of the cultic characteristics of your particular cult:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/features.shtml

But we'll give you the ten perhaps most definitive of your church's cult status.

1) You have a self-appointed leader that claims God made him the apostle of Christianity.

2) Your church teaches that they are the only true church, and that salvation can only be achieved by being a member of your church.

3) Your church requires money from members while employees of the church are not paid, and tithing is stressed more than salvation.

4) Your church teaches that there is no meaning or purpose in your life without God.

5) Your church instills fear, paranoia, and delusion on the end of the world.

6) Fasting and faith healing are encouraged.

7) Recruitment of new members is stressed more than salvation.

8) Members are subjected to psychological programming including brainwashing, mind control, dependency, and conformity.

9) You engage in bizarre rituals and practices that include speaking in tongues and forcing yourselves to cry when you pray and sing.

10) You all worship an evil god and follow an immoral book, while teaching incorrect facts from that book.

We hope that clarified things for you. Write us back if you have any further comments. Thank you for contacting us; the Watchers of the 4th Watch.

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
December 6, 2011
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spacer Here is my reply to your statements of why 4th Watch is a cult:

1)"You have a self-appointed leader that claims God made him the apostle of Christianity"

Answer: You know my friend, I've been in 4th Watch for many years, and I've been listening to the messages of Apostle ATF. I never heard him proclaim himself as an apostle of our church, nor heard him say that he was sent by God. It's the members that thinks that he is an apostle because of the great and mighty works God is giving us everyday. The signs of apostleship can be seen in our apostle.

2)"Your church teaches that they are the only true church, and that salvation can only be achieved by being a member of your church"

Answer: I've heard Bishop Art say to the visitors this exact statement: "Nangaral ba kami ng relihiyon sa inyo? Wala kaming pinangaral na anumang relihiyon" We do claim to be the true church, except the word "only". So far in this time, we cannot see churches today that has solid doctrines except 4th Watch. However, if one church says that they're a true church, they should have the signs of a true church. I will list the signs of a true church of Christ according to the bible:
1) Tamang Pangalan
2) Tamang Pangangasiwa
3) Kumpletong Kaloob
4) Nagpapakita ng mga dakilang gawa
5) Nabubuhay sa kabanalan

So far, 4th Watch pa lang ang nakikita kong may mga ganitong signs, and don't tell me that i'm brainwashed or something. But it's the truth. You can translate the above statements in English if you can.

3) "Your church requires money from members while employees of the church are not paid, and tithing is stressed more than salvation"

Answer: Okay, so you gave me that simple statement, I'll give you a simple illustration. You know Apostle Paul right? When he's preaching the word of God, is he paid or not? Do not say that the bible is wrong, just say YES or NO. If Yes, can you tell me what verse in the bible you will read that Paul accepted SALARY from other people. Tithing is a command of God, as said in Malachi 3:10. If you didn't tithe, it means that you didn't test the LORD. The LORD said that if you will test him in this things, he will open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings that doesn't have enough room to keep.

4)"Your church teaches that there is no meaning or purpose in your life without God"

Answer: Yes this is true, because all things came from God. "Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:" Even the smallest bacteria in the world came from God! Without God, we are nothing.

5)"Your church instills fear, paranoia, and delusion on the end of the world"

Answer: We do not give any apocalyptic messages about the end of the world. If you're scared because of the end of the world or rapture, this only symbolize that you don't believe that Christ will return in the same manner as he go up in heaven. Even the four great signs of the 2nd Coming of Christ are fulfilled now. You want me to elaborate the signs? Okay, it's easy. My statement will come from the bible:
1) Increasing of Knowledge = Daniel 12:4
2) Interplanetary Travel = Daniel 12:4
3) Restoration of Israel = Matthew 24:32-33
4) The Goodman of the House = Matthew 24:43

a. Increasing of Knowledge = Today, people are finding a way to cure people using lasers and advanced technology, which before, is not used.
b. Interplanetary Travel = Fulfilled in March 1969 Neil Armstrong is the first man to walk on Moon
c. The Restoration of Israel = United Nations declared Israel as an independent state on 14 May 1948
d. The Goodman of the House = Our Apostle Arsenio Tan Ferriol, which is in the foursquare church before(3rd watch), was called by God through the voice and light, which is a sign of being an apostle. He fulfilled the saying in Matthew 24:43, as the goodman of the house who will wait for the return of Christ. He also explained this signs of the second coming which was sealed in the time of Daniel "Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end" and to be reavealed in the end time. See, all the signs of the end time has been revealed by the Goodman of the House, which is Apostle Arsenio Tan Ferriol.

6) Fasting and faith healing are encouraged

Answer: Fasting is a way of God to be close to him and to pray for him as said in Joel:
Joel 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joel 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Faith healing is what the bible says in:
Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

So Fasting is a way to turn back to God and to repent for all of our sins. Faith healing is a way of showing that you will believe that God will cure you according to your faith.

7) Recruitment of new members is stressed more than salvation

Answer: No, baptizing new members comes first before salvation. Salvation of man is through water baptism and faith that Jesus is God and raised from the dead. (Mark 16:15-16, Romans 10:9)
IT is the great commission that God gave his apostles before he returned to heaven, as said in Matthew 28:19-20
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

8) "Members are subjected to psychological programming including brainwashing, mind control, dependency, and conformity"

Answer: Actually, 4th Watch doesn't do mind control. It's for aliens, also atheists like Mark Zuckerberg. What the bible teaches is what 4th Watch does. Even Jesus didn't used mind control or anything except preaching the people.

9) "You engage in bizarre rituals and practices that include speaking in tongues and forcing yourselves to cry when you pray and sing."

Answer: 1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Psa 34:17 The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
Psa 40:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.

It's clear now, these passages in the bible will explain your statement above

10) You all worship an evil god and follow an immoral book, while teaching incorrect facts from that book.

Answer: Maybe, the reason that you have on why God is evil because of your unheard prayer? God will answer your prayer according to your faith and to his will. He will not answer prayers from sinful people as said in Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Okay, which is more immoral? Your accusations or the bible? It's clear that this website is more immoral because it shows criticism and prejudice. 4th Watch didn't even pushed you out of the church, you walked out of your own. As said in the bible, backsliders is already said by Jesus. He said that it is bound to happen Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

So I hope this is a more clearer stand of the Doctrines of 4th Watch. I hope whoever you are who is reading this will reconsider on being an Atheist and turn yourself to God

-Christian
December 6, 2011
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Freethinker spacer Thank you for getting back to us. Here is our reply to your statements in response to the 4th Watch being a cult.

1) You have a self-appointed leader that claims God made him the apostle of Christianity.

"You know my friend, I've been in 4th Watch for many years, and I've been listening to the messages of Apostle ATF. I never heard him proclaim himself as an apostle of our church, nor heard him say that he was sent by God. It's the members that thinks that he is an apostle because of the great and mighty works God is giving us everyday."

We have members of your church that believe otherwise. If you are lacking in your knowledge about your apostle, you can read more about him at our website here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/leader.shtml

"The signs of apostleship can be seen in our apostle."

There is nothing about your apostle that is special or unique concerning apostleship. He has simply established his own rules for apostleship and convinced you that he meets those rules. He said it himself that God talked to him, and made him what he his, and persons are so gullible, that they believe him, because who can argue with God? What's really ironic about this is that Arsenio doesn't even meet basic standards to be an expert on the Bible, which is where he claims most of the Christian knowledge comes from.

2) Your church teaches that they are the only true church, and that salvation can only be achieved by being a member of your church.

"I've heard Bishop Art say to the visitors this exact statement:

"Did we preach about religion to you? We never preached any religion.""

Sorry to confront your Bishop Art there, but you guys DO preach religion. You are all in a religion.

"We do claim to be the true church, except the word "only". So far in this time, we cannot see churches today that has solid doctrines except 4th Watch."

There will never be any other church that has "solid" doctrines as the 4th Watch. The 4th Watch religion is an invention of Arsenio Ferriol, so there will never be another one that is exactly the same. Arsenio knows this. This was done on purpose. That is what a cult is. We have already covered this perfectly in our project, which you can see here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/truth.shtml

"However, if one church says that they're a true church, they should have the signs of a true church. I will list the signs of a true church of Christ according to the bible:

1) Correct name
2) Correct administration
3) Complete providence or blessings
4) Doing/showing great deeds
5) Divine/pure life or living a pure life

So far, 4th Watch pa lang ang nakikita kong may mga ganitong signs, and don't tell me that i'm brainwashed or something. But it's the truth. You can translate the above statements in English if you can."

The 4th Watch does not live up to these "signs", and even if they did, there is no such thing as a true church because God is not real in the first place. The Bible never lists a "true" church as requiring to have "Church of Christ" in it. The Bible never teaches that you need an apostle either. It is easy to assume that your church is blessed by God, but you have no way to confirm this. Your church does some good deeds, but they are overshadowed by the bad things that you do. And trust us; We've met a lot of your 4th Watch kind. We don't ANY of you who live pure lives.

3) Your church requires money from members while employees of the church are not paid, and tithing is stressed more than salvation.

"Okay, so you gave me that simple statement, I'll give you a simple illustration. You know Apostle Paul right? When he's preaching the word of God, is he paid or not? Do not say that the bible is wrong, just say YES or NO. If Yes, can you tell me what verse in the bible you will read that Paul accepted SALARY from other people. Tithing is a command of God, as said in Malachi 3:10. If you didn't tithe, it means that you didn't test the LORD. The LORD said that if you will test him in this things, he will open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings that doesn't have enough room to keep."

You don't seem to understand. We could care less if the Bible instructs you to tithe or not. No god of good or love should ever require his people to give him money in order to have blessings. This is simply a concept being used by Arsenio Ferriol to make money without having to do any real work. He is a scam-artist; along with his family. The money from tithes does not go to God; they go to the apostle. Him and his family get rich off of their members, as well as na´ve donors. Persons who work for him and the church have every right to expect payment for their services. We have heard horror stories of the extremes that some employees of Arsenio go through to work for him without getting paid. He is an immoral man. This is a sign of a cult; not a true church. We have a great expansion on this at our website here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/tithing.shtml

4) Your church teaches that there is no meaning or purpose in your life without God.

"Yes this is true, because all things came from God."

Yes; we know it's true, and we could care less if all things came from God. It is a horrible cultic teaching to teach others, especially children, that they are nothing unless God exists, or unless they believe in this evil god. You 4th Watchers have a lot to learn about life and love. It's a shame that you allow the church to brainwash you so.

"Without God, we are nothing."

Without the CHURCH; you are nothing. That is what the 4th Watch REALLY teaches. A perfect cultic feature.

5) Your church instills fear, paranoia, and delusion on the end of the world.

"We do not give any apocalyptic messages about the end of the world."

Yes you DO; hence "THE 4th WATCH". You are a doomsday cult; constantly focusing on the end of the world, and filling everyone in your church with extreme delusional thinking, while also trying to do the same with non-members.

"If you're scared because of the end of the world or rapture, this only symbolize that you don't believe that Christ will return in the same manner as he go up in heaven."

There is no Rapture, and it is morally wrong of all of you to be teaching a message that the end of the world is near. You should be focusing on the life you have; enjoying that life, and allowing others to live theirs; not instilling fear, paranoia, and delusion in the minds of everyone in the world. We know about your apocalyptic teachings, which can be found here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/apocalypse.shtml

"Even the four great signs of the 2nd Coming of Christ are fulfilled now."

No; they aren't.

"1) Increasing of Knowledge = Daniel 12:4"

It is inevitable for knowledge to increase. Knowledge increases all of the time. To call this a great sign of Christ's return is silly.

"2) Interplanetary Travel = Daniel 12:4"

That verse does not talk about interplanetary travel. If you meant to insert a different verse, it is probably a verse that is only being interpreted that way, and doesn't actually say that at all.

"3) Restoration of Israel = Matthew 24:32-33"

This verse says nothing about Israel.

"4) The Goodman of the House = Matthew 24:43"

That verse says nothing about the Goodman of the house being a sign of Christ's return. You are putting much more into it than it offers.

"a. Increasing of Knowledge = Today, people are finding a way to cure people using lasers and advanced technology, which before, is not used."

Of course they are; no thanks to religion.

"d. The Goodman of the House = Our Apostle Arsenio Tan Ferriol, which is in the foursquare church before (3rd watch), was called by God through the voice and light, which is a sign of being an apostle. He fulfilled the saying in Matthew 24:43, as the goodman of the house who will wait for the return of Christ."

This is a great example of you simply interpreting something a certain way that cannot be verified. Arsenio Ferriol simply fulfilled this himself by proclaiming that he is the Goodman of the house. Lol. Do you have any idea how many cult leaders like Arsenio Ferriol claim to be fulfillments of the Bible? Do you have any idea how many of them claim to be apostles, goodmen, angels, even Christ himself? Get real.

"See, all the signs of the end time has been revealed by the Goodman of the House, which is Apostle Arsenio Tan Ferriol."

Not only is the Bible untrue, but the fact that all of the signs have apparently been met and no apocalypse has ever come should tell you something. Further more; your Apostle Arsenio Ferriol is nothing but a scam-artist that has got you all pretty fooled. There is no way that Arsenio can be an apostle of God, and we explain why in an outstanding article in our project that you can read here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/refuting-1.shtml

6) Fasting and faith healing are encouraged.

"Fasting is a way of God to be close to him and to pray for him"

Only a sick god. It is also a way to prove that you are a cult.

"Faith healing is what the bible says in:"

We do not care what the Bible says. You seem to be under the impression that you are not a cult because you are simply following the Bible. You fail to realize that following the Bible is often what makes you a cult. It is dangerous to teach that praying to God can heal and cure. But it's not just that. Honestly; if persons want to pray for God to help them in such situations; fine, but the real problem is when faith healing is encouraged over real medicine. We understand that not all 4th Watchers feel that way, but the head producer of our project went to a 4th Watch church where the pastor specifically told his members to seek God first before doctors when ill. He specifically told members to come to church, even when they were sick. You people are dangerous.

7) Recruitment of new members is stressed more than salvation.

"No, baptizing new members comes first before salvation. Salvation of man is through water baptism and faith that Jesus is God and raised from the dead."

We're not talking about that. We're talking about how much focus the cult has on finding new members when the real message should be about salvation. We are aware that for you; salvation cannot come unless you are in you are in the 4th Watch church, but the recruitment of new members over salvation is always a sign of cultic activity. We know why this is done. You want to raise more money for your apostle, because he teaches that the more money that you give, the more "blessings" that you will have.

8) Members are subjected to psychological programming including brainwashing, mind control, dependency, and conformity.

"Actually, 4th Watch doesn't do mind control."

Because your mind is already controlled by your 4th Watch cult, it is no wonder that you would say such a thing. Arsenio Ferriol has mastered the art of psychological programming, and you can learn all of that, including mind control, at our website here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/programming.shtml

9) You engage in bizarre rituals and practices that include speaking in tongues and forcing yourselves to cry when you pray and sing.

"It's clear now, these passages in the bible will explain your statement above"

Again; you're using Bible passages to refute your cultic status, and that does nothing to de-associate you with cults. The truth is; you engage in bizarre rituals and practices like speaking in tongues and forcing yourself to cry when singing. Whether the Bible tells you to do this or not doesn't change the fact that this behavior helps to make you a cult. In fact; following the Bible this way only makes you more of a cult. If you're doing this to appease a book, then you're even MORE cultic.

10) You all worship an evil god and follow an immoral book, while teaching incorrect facts from that book

"Maybe, the reason that you have on why God is evil because of your unheard prayer?"

No; it's because of the fact that he's evil.

"Okay, which is more immoral? Your accusations or the bible?"

The Bible, but you'd have to read it to understand why.

"It's clear that this website is more immoral because it shows criticism and prejudice."

Actually; it shows the facts.

"4th Watch didn't even pushed you out of the church, you walked out of your own."

Because of their immoral teachings, and the fact that they were a cult.

"So I hope this is a more clearer stand of the Doctrines of 4th Watch. I hope whoever you are who is reading this will reconsider on being an Atheist and turn yourself to God"

A couple of us still believe in God, but none of us will ever consider joining your church of evil.

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
December 7, 2011
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spacer Okay, so I don't want to respond to all of your messages, which is a waste of time. I just wanted to respond to some important parts that you've replied.

5) Your church instills fear, paranoia, and delusion on the end of the world.

"We do not give any apocalyptic messages about the end of the world."

Yes you DO; hence "THE 4th WATCH". You are a doomsday cult; constantly focusing on the end of the world, and filling everyone in your church with extreme delusional thinking, while also trying to do the same with non-members.

The 4th Watch only means the parable of time given by Christ, it doesn't mean doomsday. IT is NEVER stated in the parable that there will be doomsday, except in the day of the Armageddon, which non-believers will be killed.

"2) Interplanetary Travel = Daniel 12:4"

That verse does not talk about interplanetary travel. If you meant to insert a different verse, it is probably a verse that is only being interpreted that way, and doesn't actually say that at all.

IT says that many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased Okay so I'll quote the statement "to and fro". In the dictionary, which I've searched, to and fro means Moving from one place to another and back again. So it can be applied to the spaceships that came from the earth and went to the moon, which those spaceships returned after months. So basically speaking, this chapter has been fulfilled, imagine the bible written over thousands of years, already fulfilled decades ago.

"3) Restoration of Israel = Matthew 24:32-33"

This verse says nothing about Israel.

Okay so lets get the verse about Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

So, according to my research, the fig tree symbolizes Israel, it means that Israel will once again be recognized as a state, which was fulfilled decades ago. Jesus told them these in parables so common people(like the people reading this now) who are not sent by God will not understand it.

"4) The Goodman of the House = Matthew 24:43" That verse says nothing about the Goodman of the house being a sign of Christ's return. You are putting much more into it than it offers.

Actually, Matthew 24 is the signs of the second coming of Christ, whether you believe it or not. Again, it's a parable. It symbolizes that one trustworthy and watchful man will do God's will and wait for his return.

8) Members are subjected to psychological programming including brainwashing, mind control, dependency, and conformity.

"Actually, 4th Watch doesn't do mind control."

Because your mind is already controlled by your 4th Watch cult, it is no wonder that you would say such a thing. Arsenio Ferriol has mastered the art of psychological programming, and you can learn all of that, including mind control, at our website here:

Sarcastically speaking, can you show me his Diploma that says Bachelor of Science in Psychological Programming? Lol, I know that he has a diploma, of Theology and not the above accusations.

10) You all worship an evil god and follow an immoral book, while teaching incorrect facts from that book

"Maybe, the reason that you have on why God is evil because of your unheard prayer?"

No; it's because of the fact that he's evil.

"Okay, which is more immoral? Your accusations or the bible?"

The Bible, but you'd have to read it to understand why.

"It's clear that this website is more immoral because it shows criticism and prejudice."

Actually; it shows the facts.

"4th Watch didn't even pushed you out of the church, you walked out of your own."

Because of their immoral teachings, and the fact that they were a cult.

Okay so tell me what part of the bible is immoral?
Did it teach you to be a homo? or a lesbian?
Did the bible teach you to be atheists?

Apparently not. As stated in the law, accusing is an immoral act. The law doesn't mention that the bible is immoral and unjust. In fact, it's better to be a Methodist than an Atheist. You know why? Because they still believe there's a God, even though God doesn't hear their prayers. Except that it's God's will.

Okay, concluding this reply, can I have some testimony of someone here who turned away from 4th Watch and let me hear the story. If you don't mind, actually. I just wanted to hear his experience, and don't link me to your website, because I don't want to read edited statements. I'm in Saudi Arabia, and I read one of the so called "victims" story here. I just want to read it again to clear myself, and whoever reads this.

"In Jeddah Saudi Arabia, I have attended 4th watch prayer meetings 3 times and oh boy 3 times was enough for me in witnessing their manipulation and brainwashing. They all possess the basic rules in manipulation. If you are weak in mind and will, you will sure be a victim" (I excluded the cursing, too much immoral to be posted in this website, who's immoral now? )

So I wanted to clear this guy, it's good that he attended, but why did he only attended Prayer Meeting? It's not good that he didn't attended the worship (don't cut me here okay, if you don't mind? read my whole statement)Because you cannot pray except you undergo through baptism and faith in Christ. As stated in the bible, sinners' prayer will not be heard except that he does the will of God, which is baptism. Don't repeat that you don't believe in the Holy Spirit.

"The Bible never lists a "true" church as requiring to have "Church of Christ" in it. The Bible never teaches that you need an apostle either" I quoted this passage, I want to answer this, the bible states that His church should be named after Him, for He is the head, and the believers is the body. The bible mentions in "Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?"

I quoted again to lessen the space, I only quoted the important part. It is said above that how shall they preach, except they be sent. Logically thinking, that you need to be sent by God to preach His gospel. Hopefully you'll be able to reply soon, I'm waiting for you every day. Maybe you're editing your answers? Me, I've been writing this on the spot, no editing or anything, I'm researching in the internet and my notes, while writing here. I'm full of love, while you Atheists are full of hatred, see I'm not angry for you, in fact I want to save you all! From the Judgement that will occur after Christ takes the church up in the air and to the throne of God.

-Christian
December 11, 2011
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Freethinker spacer "The 4th Watch only means the parable of time given by Christ, it doesn't mean doomsday. IT is NEVER stated in the parable that there will be doomsday, except in the day of the Armageddon, which non-believers will be killed."

You are unfamiliar with the 4th watch as a concept of the end times, which is an invention of Arsenio Ferriol. Yes; your church's 4th Watch concept comes from the 4th watch mentioned in the Bible, but it is only a reference used by Arsenio to construct his doomsday message. The 4th Watch in the way that your church uses it is NOT what is found in the Bible. Our project in good detail explains all of this. We suggest that you read it so that you can familiarize yourself with the cult that you are a part of.

You can read that here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/watch.shtml

And if you're interested to know how it's not even Biblical; read here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/4thwatch.shtml

"IT says that many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased Okay so I'll quote the statement "to and fro". In the dictionary, which I've searched, to and fro means Moving from one place to another and back again. So it can be applied to the spaceships that came from the earth and went to the moon, which those spaceships returned after months. So basically speaking, this chapter has been fulfilled, imagine the bible written over thousands of years, already fulfilled decades ago."

Again; this verse does not mention planetary travel. This is one of the best examples of purely shameful truth stretching and radical interpretation in order for you frauds to fulfill a prophecy. If this is the case, then the prophecy was fulfilled way before it was even prophesied, as persons back then already moved "to and fro", as it could also have been applied to horses and carriages. If we're not mistaken; even persons on their bare feet have moved from one place to another and back again. This statement from you is a total failure. This response was perhaps the most pitiful of anything regarding prophecies and Bible interpretation that we have ever heard.

"So, according to my research, the fig tree symbolizes Israel, it means that Israel will once again be recognized as a state, which was fulfilled decades ago. Jesus told them these in parables so common people(like the people reading this now) who are not sent by God will not understand it."

Again; this verse does not mention Israel. Let us explain to you what you are doing here. In order to intentionally fulfill prophecies; in some cases like here; you make them up; you take a passage and run its meaning through a mental tornado thereby completely twisting its meaning; using symbolism and taking advantage of its vagueness to link it to any event that you want it to; thus fulfilling a "prophecy". We could make the fig tree represent anything that we want it to. You Christians use Israel because it is convenient. That is all.

Further more; parables are used so that the common people CAN understand it. To say otherwise is nothing but an obvious excuse to defend the fact that the parable in no way talks about Israel or fulfills a prophecy. It's very easy to "prove" something in the Bible when you can make a verse mean whatever you want it to, and when someone points out to you your error, it's easy to dismiss it by saying that they just don't understand it because they were not sent by God; but you fail to realize that it is not God that you need in order to understand the parables; just basic rationality and logic; which you and your fellow cult members are being trained not to have.

"Actually, Matthew 24 is the signs of the second coming of Christ, whether you believe it or not. Again, it's a parable. It symbolizes that one trustworthy and watchful man will do God's will and wait for his return."

Again; it does not mention the Goodman of the house being a sign for the end time, nor does it link to Arsenio Ferriol in any way. You are putting way too much meaning into it that it simply does not have. You're basically doing the same thing here that you're doing with the other "prophecies" that you mentioned.

"Sarcastically speaking, can you show me his Diploma that says Bachelor of Science in Psychological Programming?"

I can do better than that. I can show you his victims.

"Lol, I know that he has a diploma, of Theology and not the above accusations."

A diploma in theology? That's it? And this guy calls himself an apostle. No outstanding degrees in history or archeology? He doesn't know any of the original Biblical languages? Just a theology diploma. We see.

"Okay so tell me what part of the bible is immoral?"

Lol. It would be easier to tell you which parts are not. If we had to guess, we would say that 90% of the Bible is immoral.

"Did it teach you to be a homo? or a lesbian?"

No; but it taught us to hate them.

"Did the bible teach you to be atheists?"

No; but it taught us to hate them.

"Apparently not. As stated in the law, accusing is an immoral act."

The Bible is not immoral for teaching persons to be gay or atheistic; it's immoral for teaching everyone to hate these peoples. What's wrong with you?

"The law doesn't mention that the bible is immoral and unjust."

We could care less what the law in the Bible states. The law in the Bible is not an authority of any kind, and is immoral. We follow no such law.

"In fact, it's better to be a Methodist than an Atheist. You know why? Because they still believe there's a God, even though God doesn't hear their prayers. Except that it's God's will."

No; it's better to be an atheist because God isn't real, and so this way we don't waste our time with prayers to begin with.

"Okay, concluding this reply, can I have some testimony of someone here who turned away from 4th Watch and let me hear the story. If you don't mind, actually. I just wanted to hear his experience, and don't link me to your website, because I don't want to read edited statements. I'm in Saudi Arabia, and I read one of the so called "victims" story here.

Sure; no problem, but the whole purpose of making our website was so that such information is readily available to those who need it. What do you mean you don't want a link to our website because you don't want to read "edited statements"? Copying and pasting a story here would be no different than just going to the website and reading it there, except that it would be more convenient for both of us. So we're giving you a link to one of our stories here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/web/experience1-1.shtml

"(I excluded the cursing, too much immoral to be posted in this website, who's immoral now? )"

There is nothing immoral about cursing.

"So I wanted to clear this guy, it's good that he attended, but why did he only attended Prayer Meeting? It's not good that he didn't attended the worship (don't cut me here okay, if you don't mind? read my whole statement) Because you cannot pray except you undergo through baptism and faith in Christ. As stated in the bible, sinners' prayer will not be heard except that he does the will of God, which is baptism. Don't repeat that you don't believe in the Holy Spirit."

The person who wrote that testimony is not one of us, so we do not know the whole story. That was simply a testimony that was emailed to us after they visited our website. However; it is clear as to why he did not get baptized. He said that three days was enough for him to witness the craziness that your cult was portraying. Perhaps he was already baptized by some other religion, so maybe God was hearing his prayers just fine. In any case; it is clear that he was disgusted by your cult.

"I quoted this passage, I want to answer this, the bible states that His church should be named after Him, for He is the head, and the believers is the body."

Where does it say that? Show us.

"It is said above that how shall they preach, except they be sent. Logically thinking, that you need to be sent by God to preach His gospel."

It is because of verses like this that Arsenio has you fooled. But it's okay. Our team has wonderfully destroyed the notion that an apostle is necessary for a true church. The link to the exact part of our project that does this can be seen going here:

http://www.pmcc4thwatchtruth.org/pages/book/12.shtml#teacher

We suggest that you read it. The whole rebuttal against an apostle being needed by the church is addressed under "Importance of a Teacher".

"Hopefully you'll be able to reply soon, I'm waiting for you every day."

We reply as often as we can.

"Maybe you're editing your answers? Me, I've been writing this on the spot, no editing or anything, I'm researching in the internet and my notes, while writing here."

We are not sure what you're trying to say here. We too write on the spot, but of course we edit our answers in order to ensure that we have properly and correctly answered your questions and addressed your comments.

"I'm full of love, while you Atheists are full of hatred"

A true Christian is required to be hateful, and the 4th Watch cult teaches all of its members to be hateful too, so we wouldn't talk about you being full of love if we were you.

"see I'm not angry for you, in fact I want to save you all!"

Save us how? By teaching us to hate as much as your cult does?

"From the Judgement that will occur after Christ takes the church up in the air and to the throne of God."

You first have to prove that the Bible is true and that God exists. Then you have to prove that your church is the true church and that Arsenio Ferriol is the true apostle sent by God. These are not easy tasks. Good luck.

-Watchers of the 4th Watch
December 12, 2011
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